The News Project: In Studio – A Follow-Up Conversation With Amanda Janoo

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[00:00:07] Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to another edition of GNAT
[00:00:09] TV's In -Depth Series.
[00:00:11] My name is Andrew McKeever.
[00:00:12] Today is Friday, October 2nd, and we're in the middle of doing
[00:00:15] a series of programs featuring
[00:00:16] candidates who are running for state offices, mostly from our
[00:00:20] local areas around here.
[00:00:23] And today we're going to zoom out a bit
[00:00:24] to the statewide level.
[00:00:26] We're very pleased and excited to have with us today in the
[00:00:28] studio Amanda Janoo, who
[00:00:30] is running for governor.
[00:00:32] She is the Democratic nominee.
[00:00:35] She is from South Strafford, Vermont, made a long drive down
[00:00:38] here today to be with us.
[00:00:40] Thank you very much, Ms. Janoo, for making the trip and making
[00:00:44] the time to talk with us.
[00:00:45] So it's a real pleasure.
[00:00:49] Amanda Janoo was an economics and policy lead for the Well
[00:00:53] -Being Economy Alliance.
[00:00:54] That's a think tank and her other work, includes experience
[00:00:57] working with the United Nations
[00:00:59] and international development organizations as an industrial
[00:01:02] policy and structural transformation
[00:01:04] specialist.
[00:01:05] And I want to ask you, what is a structural
[00:01:07] transformation specialist?
[00:01:09] That sounds very complicated.

[00:01:12] Speaker 2: Well, but it's a good question.
[00:01:15] Not so much.
[00:01:16] It really just means, like, how are you intentionally sort of
[00:01:20] transforming the structure of your economy?
[00:01:22] (Oh, okay.) So, like,
[00:01:23] moving if you're just, like, specialized in agriculture, for
[00:01:27] example, to, like, diversifying
[00:01:28] your economy or adding more value to
[00:01:31] your products, et cetera. That's structural change.

[00:01:33] Speaker 1: Okay.
[00:01:34] Well, great.
[00:01:35] Well, this is her first try for a public office.
[00:01:39] So the obvious first question then is, what prompted you to
[00:01:42] run for, start your political
[00:01:44] career without campaigning for governor?

[00:01:47] Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, it's just the moment we're in.
[00:01:51] Like, I think the compounding crises, like,
[00:01:56] the fascism, particularly, was what sort of
[00:02:00] propelled me to decide to throw my hat at the ring this time.
[00:02:03] It felt like the choices we make now are really going to
[00:02:06] determine the course of history.
[00:02:08] And if there was ever a moment to try to do the hard
[00:02:11] thing, it's now.

[00:02:15] Speaker 1: So, I guess I'd like to explore some of the major issues
[00:02:19] that your campaign has been talking
[00:02:22] about and that, I guess, all the rest of us have been talking
[00:02:26] about, housing, health care,
[00:02:28] education costs, affordability, all part of that.
[00:02:32] I thought we could maybe start with the housing question.
[00:02:36] It's been a major topic, certainly around
[00:02:38] here, for quite a while.
[00:02:39] I'm sure everywhere else across Vermont and for
[00:02:42] that matter, the rest of the country.
[00:02:46] But what do you think the role of the state is in helping
[00:02:50] incentivize more housing construction
[00:02:53] and working on the problem of getting more Vermonters into
[00:02:57] homes that they can afford?

[00:02:58] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:03:00] Well, I think the state has a really important role and
[00:03:02] responsibility in this moment to
[00:03:04] help to not only deal with our current housing crisis, but
[00:03:08] really think about what is the
[00:03:11] fundamental structure of the housing market that's going to
[00:03:14] ensure permanent affordability,
[00:03:15] not just now, but for also generations to come.
[00:03:18] I think Vermont already has actually a pretty unique
[00:03:21] foundation to build upon compared to
[00:03:23] a lot of other states.
[00:03:24] We have a lot of housing trusts,
[00:03:26] co -ops, non -profit housing, permanently affordable housing.
[00:03:30] That can be a good model for the kinds of investments
[00:03:34] you'd want the state to be making
[00:03:36] in this moment.
[00:03:37] I think there is also, if we look at the bigger picture,
[00:03:40] recognition that a lot of our housing
[00:03:42] is increasingly being bought up by private equity corporations,
[00:03:47] this is being used as
[00:03:48] vacation rentals or Airbnb's, et cetera.
[00:03:52] And so in a moment where a lot of people just can't afford a
[00:03:57] house, how do we make sure
[00:03:58] that we are reducing property taxes for residential
[00:04:02] Vermonters, for example, by asking corporations,
[00:04:06] private equity second homeowners to pay more as a way in which to
[00:04:10] also get to the root
[00:04:12] of some of our housing challenges.

[00:04:14] Speaker 1: So one of the proposals in your platform falls for a second
[00:04:18] home tax, I assume as a way of
[00:04:22] possibly financing some of the necessary construction.
[00:04:25] I wonder if you could explain how that is going to work.
[00:04:28] And also, I guess one of the criticisms of ideas like that
[00:04:33] over the years has been that,
[00:04:34] okay, so you're going to encourage all wealthy Vermonters
[00:04:38] that are already paying a fair amount
[00:04:40] of tax into the state to move someplace else where the tax
[00:04:44] rates are lower and that we
[00:04:46] lose them.
[00:04:49] I guess I just wondered, first of all, well, let's start there.
[00:04:52] Do you think that that's a valid criticism and that there's any
[00:04:54] data to support that?

[00:04:56] Speaker 2: That second homeowners will leave?

[00:04:59] Speaker 1: Yeah.

[00:05:00] Speaker 2: I mean, all right, maybe like starting out, first of all, I
[00:05:05] think some of the challenge
[00:05:06] is currently Vermont, we only have two classifications
[00:05:09] for housing.
[00:05:12] It's whether it's your like primary residence or non primary
[00:05:16] and a lot of other states have
[00:05:19] like 11 classifications, right?
[00:05:22] And so it's important that we understand the different sort of
[00:05:24] functions and purposes of
[00:05:26] housing and which kind of housing is supportive of our
[00:05:29] community and which one is maybe more
[00:05:31] extractive from our community.
[00:05:33] So there's a difference between like a small landlord that
[00:05:36] provides long term rentals to
[00:05:39] somebody, right?
[00:05:41] And you know, LLC that has a bunch of Airbnb's, right, like
[00:05:46] they're trying to use as commercial
[00:05:49] like real estate.
[00:05:51] And it's important to be able to differentiate I think between
[00:05:53] those because the point of
[00:05:54] taxes is not just in terms of generating revenue, it's also a
[00:05:58] way to discourage behavior.
[00:06:00] And so for example,
[00:06:02] according to like the state auditor, like since COVID
[00:06:06] we spent $780
[00:06:09] million to build about 4400 units of new housing in Vermont.
[00:06:13] Over that exact same period, 5 ,000 units were turned into
[00:06:16] Airbnb's and vacation rentals.
[00:06:18] So we are spending almost, you know what I mean?
[00:06:22] Like $800 million of taxpayer money to be worse off than
[00:06:25] we started, right?

[00:06:26] Speaker 1: And so if we don't

[00:06:27] Speaker 2: actually use our taxes as a way to discourage the
[00:06:31] use of our housing
[00:06:33] for those purposes, we're never going to actually get to the
[00:06:36] root of the crisis and ensure that
[00:06:38] our housing is being prioritized for people to live in as opposed
[00:06:42] to just vacation.

[00:06:45] Speaker 1: Okay, so, but the state does have an active role to play in
[00:06:49] helping private sector developers,
[00:06:52] you know, get troubles on the ground and build more.

[00:06:56] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
[00:06:57] I mean, both in terms of
[00:06:58] building, I think in terms of, you
[00:07:01] know, what type of housing
[00:07:02] we're prioritizing, and I would also say I really want to make
[00:07:05] sure the state is focusing
[00:07:06] on how do we help just regular Vermonters to be able to buy
[00:07:10] their own homes or build their own homes.
[00:07:12] So there's a lot of incentives right now for larger developers,
[00:07:15] but how do we make it easier
[00:07:16] for somebody to get like a building loan if they
[00:07:19] just want to build their own forever home, right?
[00:07:21] Like that's also an important way that we build the houses we
[00:07:25] need, but also maintain
[00:07:28] the kind of equity we want to see.

[00:07:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's being more challenging now is mortgage
[00:07:33] rates are inching upwards.

[00:07:35] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:07:36] Speaker 1: Maybe inching is being too modest or whatever.

[00:07:39] Speaker 2: Yeah.

[00:07:41] Speaker 1: Well, housing is such a complicated subject.
[00:07:44] We could probably spend our entire time here talking
[00:07:47] about the ins and outs of that.
[00:07:48] But let me move on and ask you about,
[00:07:52] well, education reform, a big topic in Montpelier
[00:07:55] for the last couple of years this past spring, the
[00:07:58] legislature and the governor finally signed
[00:08:01] off on Act 170 as it's known.
[00:08:05] I guess I just wondered the approach that Act 170
[00:08:07] anticipates here with emergency discussions
[00:08:12] and cooperative education service areas or
[00:08:15] CESAs as they're referred to.
[00:08:18] Do you think that that's a good approach?
[00:08:19] Is that the right way to go to tackle some of the cost issues
[00:08:22] that are happening around
[00:08:24] education or is there another approach you would
[00:08:27] support if elected?

[00:08:30] Speaker 2: When I look at the education issue,
[00:08:33] I guess what we understand is like the primary drivers
[00:08:37] of increasing education costs are healthcare and mental and
[00:08:40] behavioral support for kids.
[00:08:43] So the thing is, of course, there's going to be value always
[00:08:47] and if there's strategic
[00:08:49] kind of sharing of different types of services between
[00:08:53] schools, if that makes sense.
[00:08:55] But it still doesn't get to the actual cost drivers and if
[00:08:59] you're not actually dealing
[00:09:00] with the cost drivers, it's not clear to me how that's going to
[00:09:03] resolve the cost issue.
[00:09:05] And so for me, it's less about the pooling of different types
[00:09:11] of educational services
[00:09:14] as it is about the proposal for closing of smaller schools
[00:09:19] or consolidation of schools
[00:09:22] because traveling around the state, the thing I hear over and
[00:09:25] over again is how important
[00:09:26] these schools are, not just for the kids but for the community.
[00:09:31] And I've been asking folks all over Vermont, what's the thing
[00:09:35] you love most about where you live?
[00:09:37] The thing I hear over and over again is community.
[00:09:39] It's the way that we show up for each other.
[00:09:41] It's the way we come together and removing a school often
[00:09:46] means you're just giving up
[00:09:47] on that community, I feel like, altogether.
[00:09:50] And so leaning into schools as those community hubs and leaning
[00:09:54] into this model of a community
[00:09:56] school, which is something we formally started
[00:10:00] piloting in like 2021.
[00:10:01] But I would argue a lot of our schools
[00:10:03] already function that way.
[00:10:04] It's the idea that the school integrates a wider range of
[00:10:07] state and nonprofit services.
[00:10:10] So things like, you know, Peachham has integrated
[00:10:12] childcare into their school or
[00:10:15] in Winooski, there's a food bank and a free store that is there.
[00:10:19] In Newport, there's like elders come and have lunch with
[00:10:23] the kids, for example.
[00:10:25] And so you integrate like healthcare, social work, mental
[00:10:30] health support, continuing adult
[00:10:32] education, et cetera.
[00:10:35] And that can, one,
[00:10:37] ensure that the kids are actually having the
[00:10:39] foundations they need,
[00:10:41] but also their families and the community writ large.
[00:10:43] Because our kids are struggling because we're struggling.
[00:10:46] And if we're able to ensure more local access to the types of
[00:10:50] fundamental services we need,
[00:10:52] not only will that allow for community thriving, but it also
[00:10:55] allows us to diversify the budget
[00:10:56] streams that are going to our schools.
[00:10:58] So it's not all being held on just property taxes.

[00:11:02] Speaker 1: One of the concerns I've heard expressed by educators is
[00:11:07] that one of the problem small
[00:11:09] schools have is that they're unable to provide full -time
[00:11:14] nurses, full -time administrative
[00:11:16] staff, teachers,
[00:11:19] teach several grades.
[00:11:21] And the numbers of students just aren't there to support like a
[00:11:25] fully staffed school.
[00:11:28] I mean, the idea of a local school being a community hub
[00:11:33] is a very attractive one.
[00:11:35] And I know deeply embedded in the history
[00:11:37] of the state and all of that.
[00:11:38] And probably very few parents would prefer
[00:11:43] to have their kid bus
[00:11:44] half an hour in a school bus to another town.
[00:11:47] But I mean, how do we get around the fact that there just aren't
[00:11:50] enough fully staffed
[00:11:52] professionals or schools that can be fully
[00:11:56] staffed with people?

[00:11:58] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, maybe this is where like I'm from
[00:12:01] one of these small towns.
[00:12:02] So like I went to a tiny school.
[00:12:05] There was like 13 kids in my grade.
[00:12:08] And I feel like I got a good education, you know, and my
[00:12:11] mom went to school in like
[00:12:12] a one -room schoolhouse.
[00:12:14] And so I'm not always entirely convinced with the idea that
[00:12:17] it's like economies of scale
[00:12:20] is the best logic for education.
[00:12:24] With that being said, like, of course, you know, we want to
[00:12:27] ensure that kids have access to the
[00:12:28] kind of extracurriculars or like art or things like this.
[00:12:32] But again, if you integrate community more into it, those
[00:12:35] types of lessons can
[00:12:38] be available not just for the kids, but also for
[00:12:40] community, right?
[00:12:42] And so this is where we're seeing some of the schools
[00:12:43] starting to offer like
[00:12:45] community art classes.
[00:12:47] And so there's an afterschool program for kids, but it's also
[00:12:49] open then for community members to come.
[00:12:51] And I think more of that integration is actually going to
[00:12:55] be really good for everybody.
[00:12:57] I think also the major point being we're trying to deal with
[00:13:00] a crisis right now,
[00:13:01] but the reality is more people will come to Vermont.
[00:13:05] And I think the best way that we can prepare for people to
[00:13:07] come is by making sure that
[00:13:08] everybody who is here now is okay.
[00:13:12] And I don't think we should be closing like our last remaining
[00:13:17] public institution in a lot of
[00:13:19] these communities in this

[00:13:20] Speaker 1: moment, you know,

[00:13:21] Speaker 2: in response to a certain demographic challenge,
[00:13:24] because then why would you expect any sort of families to

[00:13:28] Speaker 1: move there in the future?
[00:13:30] But do you feel that, you know, the approach that I'm 170 is
[00:13:34] taking, is that something that
[00:13:37] potentially anyway can kind of correct the or solve the problem
[00:13:41] of, you know,
[00:13:44] the fact that the education tax and therefore property taxes in
[00:13:48] the state and a lot of people
[00:13:49] are at high levels, uncomfortably
[00:13:51] high levels for many people.
[00:13:53] And that would eventually offer a pathway to lowering those
[00:13:57] costs or evening them out at
[00:13:58] least across the state.

[00:14:00] Speaker 2: For sure. And property taxes are definitely a very
[00:14:03] real strain for folks.
[00:14:05] I mean, I think they've increased about on average
[00:14:07] across the state for like by 40 % over the last
[00:14:09] five years. What I'm saying is from my perspective, you deal
[00:14:14] with property taxes through property
[00:14:15] tax reform. You don't deal with it through cutting education
[00:14:19] spending, you know?

[00:14:20] Mm -hmm. >> Yeah.

[00:14:21] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, again, another subject that could easily take
[00:14:25] much longer than we've just
[00:14:27] given to it. But let's move on to another one that I know
[00:14:33] has been a big issue,
[00:14:34] certainly this year, and I'm sure for quite a while
[00:14:37] longer. And that's healthcare.
[00:14:41] You've proposed a program called Universal Primary Care.
[00:14:46] And I wonder if you could maybe
[00:14:47] get started by having you explain what that would involve.

[00:14:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:52] So, I mean, I've put out a proposal because healthcare I
[00:14:55] do actually think is the
[00:14:57] root of a lot of our crises, both in terms of the budgetary
[00:15:00] crises, but up for our,
[00:15:03] you know, businesses, communities,
[00:15:06] nonprofits, families, etc.
[00:15:09] And the idea of universal primary and preventative care,
[00:15:11] it's not like a full universal healthcare
[00:15:13] system, but it's a good solid starting point and step in that
[00:15:18] direction. But what it would do is
[00:15:21] it's, again, inspired by, you know, a lot of small towns
[00:15:24] around Vermont that in response to the
[00:15:27] healthcare crisis have started to just hire their own town
[00:15:29] nurses as like town employees.
[00:15:33] And so how do we bring back small town medicine, like bring
[00:15:37] back doctors, nurses, mental health
[00:15:41] providers. So everybody has a community doctor that they're
[00:15:44] able to see for free as a way in which
[00:15:48] to remove insurance and the fee for service structure from that
[00:15:51] first entry of care.
[00:15:54] And to reduce the pressure that's currently being placed on
[00:15:57] our emergency rooms and our,
[00:15:59] you know, like insurance premiums a bit, so we can start
[00:16:03] to transition our whole system from there.

[00:16:08] Speaker 1: And you, so I guess I guess my again, I come back to this
[00:16:12] question, how would this be paid for?
[00:16:14] I mean, would there be a need for taxing things
[00:16:18] that we're not currently taxing
[00:16:19] or taxing them at a higher level?
[00:16:21] How would that work? (Yeah.)

[00:16:24] Speaker 2: So for the universal primary
[00:16:25] and preventative care, I've been part of a coalition called
[00:16:27] Fund for Vermont's Future prior to
[00:16:31] like running for office, which is a coalition of advocacy
[00:16:34] organizations that we're looking at
[00:16:36] how to reform Vermont's tax structure so that it's more
[00:16:39] equitable and would generate like
[00:16:41] sufficient revenue for this state.
[00:16:44] And one of the proposals that they were advancing this past
[00:16:47] year was called the fair share proposal.
[00:16:49] And the idea was to ask the highest, like the top 1 %
[00:16:53] of income earners pretty much to just contribute to Vermont
[00:16:59] the same amount that they're getting
[00:17:01] in tax cuts from the big, beautiful bill.
[00:17:03] So their federal tax cuts would be redirected to
[00:17:06] Vermont. And, and based on the projected revenue from that, we
[00:17:09] would be able to cover this program.

[00:17:12] Speaker 1: The reality is what's nice about this is it's scalable.

[00:17:15] Speaker 2: So kind of regardless, we could always
[00:17:17] start with certain towns and start to hire local, you know,
[00:17:23] community doctors, nurses, etc.
[00:17:25] really understand what does that look like in terms of cost and
[00:17:29] because the estimated cost
[00:17:30] savings for the state of universal primary care is like
[00:17:34] $300 million a year, right? So
[00:17:37] this is somewhere where it's like you pay some upfront, but
[00:17:40] actually you end up saving
[00:17:41] a lot of money down the road too.

[00:17:43] Speaker 1: Okay, because it does seem like the state is
[00:17:46] really going through
[00:17:47] a difficult point right now with healthcare between hospitals,
[00:17:52] not closing curtailing services.
[00:17:55] Yeah, definitely.
[00:17:57] And primary care doctors,
[00:18:00] you know, the local doctor that used to be,
[00:18:02] you know, have an office downtown is not there
[00:18:05] anymore. They can't afford to be.

[00:18:06] Speaker 2: Well, that's a big reason why I wanted to start with universal
[00:18:10] primary. And I always emphasize
[00:18:12] the preventative healthcare is important too.
[00:18:15] And the reason why I emphasize that is because,
[00:18:18] you know, a lot of our system,
[00:18:21] our healthcare system, the issue is that it's, it's oriented
[00:18:26] around treating illness, not really keeping us healthy.

[00:18:30] Speaker 1: And

[00:18:31] Speaker 2: it's a different way of thinking.
[00:18:33] And I do believe if you have your healthcare professionals
[00:18:36] who are embedded in your community
[00:18:38] and know you as a person, they're going to be able to
[00:18:40] provide like the best kind of holistic care.
[00:18:43] And to be able to spot challenges or health issues
[00:18:46] before they become emergencies.
[00:18:49] And, you know, right now, a lot of hospitals, as you say, are
[00:18:54] like struggling.
[00:18:56] And the first, because of the our fee for service structure,
[00:19:00] they get much lower reimbursement rates for things
[00:19:03] like maternal care or mental health or
[00:19:08] elder care, primary care, like anything that it takes time and
[00:19:12] is more relational care is
[00:19:14] reimbursed at a lower rate than surgeries, tests, procedures,
[00:19:17] etc. So there's an incentive for them
[00:19:20] when they come under financial strain to cut primary care,
[00:19:24] maternal care, etc. as a way in
[00:19:26] which to balance their like budgets and ensure sort of that
[00:19:29] financial security. And so that's why
[00:19:31] we keep hearing about more and more birthing centers closing
[00:19:34] across the state. It's why,
[00:19:36] you know, general medicine and primary care
[00:19:38] is increasingly, you know,
[00:19:40] it's really hard to find a primary care doctor, etc.
[00:19:43] So this is a way to not only directly confront
[00:19:46] the immediate challenge, but also I think think a little bit
[00:19:49] longer term about like what is the
[00:19:52] system we need and how do we ensure everybody has the most
[00:19:54] essential care that they need.

[00:19:56] Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, well, it's certainly a critical issue.
[00:20:01] Let me just turn to, I suppose, a broader
[00:20:03] question kind of ties in with everything we've been talking
[00:20:06] about so far, which is how to grow
[00:20:10] the economy of the state.
[00:20:12] You know, I'm sure every state in the country or every country
[00:20:16] anywhere wants to see their economy grow.
[00:20:21] Vermont seems to have struggled in the last few years with
[00:20:26] you know, not being able to kind of build its economy very
[00:20:30] quickly anyway. So I guess I just
[00:20:32] wonder what we're seeing your ideas or what would you be
[00:20:34] trying to emphasize if you wind up in the
[00:20:37] governor's office next January to, you know, try and give
[00:20:43] businesses reasons to open or expand here in the state?

[00:20:47] Speaker 2: Yeah. So the way I would probably summarize my whole
[00:20:50] platform is protect what we
[00:20:53] love and produce what we need.
[00:20:56] So that's a lot of what I think we need to just be doing in this
[00:20:59] moment is sort of focusing up and not losing sight of the
[00:21:03] things that make Vermont so special,
[00:21:05] like the strength of our communities, like the setting,
[00:21:08] natural beauty, and also recognize that
[00:21:11] we need to really focus, I think, a lot more of our
[00:21:15] incentives, our jobs in essential sectors,
[00:21:20] like food, renewable energy, you know, healthcare, etc.
[00:21:24] So we're focusing on workforce development,
[00:21:26] housing, etc.
[00:21:27] to make sure that we have people sort of producing
[00:21:30] and providing things that are
[00:21:31] most essential in this moment.
[00:21:33] So no matter what happens in Washington or Wall Street,
[00:21:36] we're okay, right?
[00:21:37] Like the basics are fine.
[00:21:39] I would say in terms of where do I view Vermont as
[00:21:43] really having an opportunity to actually become the like
[00:21:46] innovator and leader in kind of the economy
[00:21:48] of the future is in like green industries in the sense of I
[00:21:53] think Vermont can be a leader in the
[00:21:55] circular and regenerative economy of the future.
[00:21:58] So the EU, European Union, for example, is poised
[00:22:02] to pass this law that would require any product that enters
[00:22:05] into the EU to have certain durability,
[00:22:08] reuse, repairability, recyclability standards.
[00:22:12] And Vermont, we already have a lot of businesses
[00:22:14] with that kind of environmental ethos, like, you know, you've
[00:22:18] got darn tough socks that has a lifetime
[00:22:20] warranty, even though there's not really a market incentive or
[00:22:23] bar hill gin, who's part of their
[00:22:25] mission is pollinator regeneration.
[00:22:27] And they like use the heat from their distillation process to
[00:22:31] like circulate back into their building, etc.
[00:22:33] And, and so if the state really encourages that kind of
[00:22:37] innovation and entrepreneurship in Vermont, I believe that we
[00:22:41] can not only be national and
[00:22:43] global leaders in the economy of the future, who really help to
[00:22:47] heal our planet in the process,
[00:22:49] because whether our governor or president is in denial about
[00:22:52] climate change or the environmental
[00:22:54] crisis we're in, it is real.
[00:22:57] And we cannot continue to make things with the level
[00:23:00] of waste or planned
[00:23:01] obsolescence that we are.

[00:23:03] Speaker 1: You mentioned renewable energy there.
[00:23:06] And I wanted to ask, because a
[00:23:08] couple of years ago, that was a very big topic in Montpellier,
[00:23:10] we saw the clean heat standard and
[00:23:13] other bills get through the legislature.
[00:23:17] And then, I don't know, in the last year or so,
[00:23:19] that seemed to get kind of a lot more muted.
[00:23:23] Do you feel that, you know, restarting some of the
[00:23:27] programs that might have, you know, not gone as far as their
[00:23:33] backers might have hoped would be an
[00:23:35] important thing to start?

[00:23:37] Speaker 2: I mean, absolutely.
[00:23:40] I mean, the situation between the warning ran
[00:23:42] and the trade war with Canada,
[00:23:45] our energy situation is bad.
[00:23:49] You know, I'm really concerned about
[00:23:52] people's price of heat, like heating their homes this winter.
[00:23:56] I think fuel prices have already
[00:23:57] increased about 30%.
[00:23:59] I don't know where they're going to be, but the time it's
[00:24:01] at, it's coldest.
[00:24:03] And so, this is definitely a moment where we need to be
[00:24:08] investing in more renewable energy
[00:24:10] infrastructure, just so we have some of that energy security.
[00:24:15] Again, I'm somebody who, like,
[00:24:17] resilience to me means diversification and
[00:24:20] distribution. And so, and because community is
[00:24:24] so much of what I think we love here,
[00:24:26] focusing in more of community solar, more like renewable
[00:24:32] microgrids. So,
[00:24:34] I'm working on a policy and it's like,
[00:24:36] again, it's really important to me that
[00:24:38] anything I put out there, I'm really clear on sort of the
[00:24:40] financing. But the part that I am
[00:24:41] clear on is, do you have EC fiber
[00:24:43] here? You know what that is?

[00:24:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, like the broadband internet.
[00:24:49] Right. I was going to say that's over, yeah, we do.
[00:24:52] We do have our.

[00:24:53] Speaker 2: And it's like a beautiful model
[00:24:56] because, you know, in Strafford growing up, we didn't have any
[00:24:59] internet. And then you just need
[00:25:00] a certain number of households to sign up and be willing to
[00:25:04] invest in it. And it makes it
[00:25:06] viable to then build that infrastructure.
[00:25:10] And so, we could do a similar kind of structure for
[00:25:12] solar. If you get enough households to sort of sign in,
[00:25:16] then it becomes an opportunity for
[00:25:17] people to not only make money off of it, but also feed into it
[00:25:21] and ensure that there's resilience
[00:25:24] in terms of our energy across the state.

[00:25:29] Speaker 1: Okay. So,
[00:25:31] on the business front, just before we
[00:25:33] leave that, one of the ongoing criticisms that people
[00:25:39] in the business communities make frequently,
[00:25:41] or at least I've heard them make is regulatory structure built
[00:25:46] around Act 250 and land use
[00:25:48] regulation. I know that Act 181 was an attempt to kind of
[00:25:52] circumvent some of that that led to a
[00:25:54] big pushback, particularly from some of the rural residents.
[00:25:58] So, we're concerned about not being able
[00:26:00] to build.
[00:26:01] They had a house in the, well, it would be a tier three area.
[00:26:07] What do you think is the
[00:26:09] way to combine the best features of Act 250, which I think back
[00:26:14] when it was passed in 1970,
[00:26:15] did serve a very important purpose to keep the state from
[00:26:21] being overrun with one thing or another.
[00:26:24] But now it seems like it's, every time I talk to somebody
[00:26:27] who's trying to get a project through,
[00:26:29] they go, oh my god, I've been stuck in Act 250 for five years
[00:26:31] and spent all this money on lawyers.
[00:26:34] I mean, clearly that's not the way I think Dean Davis imagined
[00:26:38] it was going to work back in 1970.
[00:26:40] What do you think we should do to fix that?

[00:26:45] Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I mean, I think that there's, first of all,
[00:26:50] there's been a conflation of, I think,
[00:26:51] of a few different things.
[00:26:53] So, some of my, I guess, issue with Act 181 was maybe different
[00:26:58] than some peoples, where I think some of the starting point was
[00:27:02] this argument that our housing
[00:27:03] crisis is because of our environmental

[00:27:05] Speaker 1: regulations,

[00:27:07] Speaker 2: which I don't think it
[00:27:08] is. I think it's because
[00:27:09] of the financialization of housing.
[00:27:12] Yeah, we've been treating houses like investments and not homes,
[00:27:14] and that's the deeper issue.

[00:27:16] Speaker 1: With that being said,

[00:27:18] Speaker 2: yes, there is definitely a lot of duplicative
[00:27:22] and painful bureaucracy and red tape that comes with a lot of
[00:27:27] our, whether that's environmental
[00:27:29] regulations or other types of ways in which just dealing with
[00:27:33] the state government right now can

[00:27:34] Speaker 1: be frustrating.

[00:27:36] Speaker 2: And so, I think there is a need for streamlining, and I
[00:27:39] mean prioritizing the kinds
[00:27:41] of projects, et cetera, that we want.
[00:27:43] But I do believe that Act 250, to the extent to which it
[00:27:47] has prevented us becoming just a bunch of strip malls and
[00:27:50] suburban sprawl, I think is good.
[00:27:53] And we do want to make sure that we are,
[00:27:56] it's not like perpetuating some class inequalities,
[00:28:00] right? Because it's sort of unfair.
[00:28:01] It's like, if you do have fancy lawyers and a lot of money
[00:28:03] probably able to get through the Act 250, all of that red tape, a
[00:28:09] lot easier than if, you know,
[00:28:10] you're somebody who's just trying to like build on their
[00:28:13] land, et cetera.
[00:28:14] So that is where I think
[00:28:16] there is equity considerations that you want to look into.
[00:28:20] And just like common sense, I think,
[00:28:22] kind of reforms to make it easier to navigate this process.
[00:28:25] So I know they were talking about, for
[00:28:26] example, the Lake Moray was doing those big concerts.
[00:28:32] And like, it was a free concert for
[00:28:33] people. It's so cool.
[00:28:35] It's like a way of like bringing a lot of people together.
[00:28:38] And, you know,
[00:28:40] now they're not going to be doing it because they, I mean,
[00:28:43] to be fair, I think there was like 10 ,000
[00:28:45] people who were coming, which was probably too much capacity
[00:28:47] for the space, I think, but they were
[00:28:50] wanting, they need to develop a parking lot.
[00:28:53] But because of Act 250, they're like, okay, well,
[00:28:56] so who knows if or when we will be able to resume this, but
[00:29:00] being able to prioritize and
[00:29:01] fast -track certain kind of project that you see as really
[00:29:04] important to our community or to, you know,
[00:29:07] the future of our state feels like something that government
[00:29:10] could easily do.

[00:29:12] Speaker 1: All right. One last question on the economic front before we
[00:29:16] need to move on.
[00:29:20] Data centers, your platform seems to be very clear that
[00:29:24] you think, no, no, no, no.
[00:29:26] Not here. Why not?
[00:29:29] I mean, would that not provide jobs and tax revenue
[00:29:32] and all the other things we
[00:29:34] say we need?

[00:29:35] Speaker 2: Well, I think there's two different reasons.
[00:29:39] One, like, I don't
[00:29:43] have any interest in Vermont just becoming like a resource
[00:29:46] colony for big tech.
[00:29:47] And two, the people of Vermont don't want it.
[00:29:51] And I think that should be enough, right? Like, and so
[00:29:55] amazingly, you know, even with the AI data center regulation
[00:29:59] bill that was advanced,
[00:30:01] I mean, it had tri -partisan support.
[00:30:02] It was not just the Democrats or Republicans,
[00:30:05] progressive, etc. Everybody was pretty aligned.
[00:30:08] And it's probably the one issue AI that I find
[00:30:11] across ages, like genders, you know, political affiliation,
[00:30:17] everybody is clear. They want
[00:30:19] some proactive leadership in terms of the regulation and
[00:30:24] prevention of that type of
[00:30:25] technology in our state.
[00:30:27] So great. And that's where then it becomes when, like,
[00:30:32] Governor Scott vetoes the bill, it feels like there's a clear
[00:30:35] Democratic deficit,
[00:30:37] because the people are calling for a type of leadership on an
[00:30:41] issue and they're not seeing it.
[00:30:43] And so I personally do view AI as probably one of the most
[00:30:47] existential crises of our time.
[00:30:50] And I believe states have to be taking a very proactive lead in
[00:30:54] terms of setting precedents
[00:30:55] for the kinds of regulations and safeguards we
[00:30:58] need for this technology.

[00:31:00] Speaker 1: As I understood that bill that Governor Scott vetoed, I
[00:31:03] think it was age 727 of research,
[00:31:06] it would not have prohibited data centers, but it would have
[00:31:09] set up a lot of restrictions
[00:31:10] that would have made it practically impossible, I would
[00:31:13] imagine, for anyone who wanted to build one.
[00:31:17] But yeah, well, I'm sure this is another subject we'll be hearing
[00:31:20] a lot more about as time goes on.
[00:31:23] Before we close, I just wanted to ask if you wanted to
[00:31:26] take a minute or so to
[00:31:28] talk to our viewers directly and say why they should consider
[00:31:32] checking the box next to your
[00:31:34] name on the ballots.

[00:31:36] Speaker 2: Hello, everyone.
[00:31:39] I'm Amanda Janoo.
[00:31:40] I'm running for Governor of Vermont.
[00:31:41] And it's really just because I love Vermont.
[00:31:45] Like, I really think we are a state that has
[00:31:49] an incredible gift of creativity,
[00:31:54] generosity, and handiness.
[00:31:56] And I think that these are
[00:31:57] skills that we need in this moment.
[00:32:00] And I know that if we're willing to all lean in and offer
[00:32:03] what we can, our passions and our time and our care for one
[00:32:07] another, that we're not going to
[00:32:08] be able to just weather the storms ahead, but be able to
[00:32:11] really lead this country forward.
[00:32:13] So I hope that you'll get involved, support one another
[00:32:16] way you can, but no matter what,
[00:32:18] just keep looking out for each other.

[00:32:20] Speaker 1: Thanks. Thank you very much.
[00:32:22] I should just mention as
[00:32:24] a program note, we have offered the Scott campaign an
[00:32:27] opportunity to come here and have a similar
[00:32:30] conversation. But we are waiting to hear a reply from that.
[00:32:35] So far, we haven't been successful in
[00:32:37] and setting that up.
[00:32:38] Well, okay, Ms.
[00:32:40] Janoo, thanks you again very much for making the time
[00:32:42] for this conversation and making a long drive down here.
[00:32:46] And well, I guess
[00:32:48] a little over a month ago before the election, November 3rd,
[00:32:54] mail and ballots will soon be going out so people can start
[00:32:57] checking those out and sending them in.
[00:33:01] And I'm sure it's going to be an interesting month for you.
[00:33:04] (Yeah.) Anyway, thank you very
[00:33:05] much again. I really appreciate your time.

[00:33:07] Speaker 2: Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[00:33:09] Speaker 1: And thanks to all of you who have been with us today as well.
[00:33:11] Hope you found our conversation interesting
[00:33:13] and informative. And well, we'll see you again the next
[00:33:16] time. Take care.