Press Pass – Lauren-Glenn Davitian
July 23, 2026
Details
On this episode of Press Pass, Lauren-Glenn Davitian, co-founder of CCTV in Burlington and the Center for Media and Democracy, explores the role of public access television in news gathering, public information, and local journalism.
Transcript
[00:00:15] Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to another edition of Press Pass on [00:00:17] GNAT TV and our News Project. [00:00:19] Today is Tuesday, July 14th. [00:00:21] My name is Andrew McKeever and it's a real pleasure to welcome [00:00:24] to our virtual studio [00:00:26] today Lauren-Glenn Davitian, who is the Public Policy Director [00:00:29] and Co -Founder of CCTV, Chittenden [00:00:32] County Television, Center for Media and Democracy, which she [00:00:37] helped launch back in 1984. [00:00:40] CCTV is one of about 24 community access media centers [00:00:45] like GNAT TV is across Vermont [00:00:48] and is part of the Vermont Access Network. [00:00:51] So Lauren-Glenn, welcome to GNAT. [00:00:54] Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Andrew. [00:00:55] Great to be here. Big fan of GNAT. [00:00:58] Speaker 1: I probably should say welcome back to GNAT, but it's good to [00:01:01] have you with us today and [00:01:02] really appreciate you making the time for the [00:01:05] opportunity for this conversation. [00:01:07] Kind of about, I was thinking how community access centers [00:01:10] across Vermont, and I suppose we could [00:01:12] talk also as well nationally, [00:01:16] how they interface with news gathering and the news world [00:01:20] at this [00:01:22] point in time when it's going through quite a bit of change, [00:01:26] but also about community access [00:01:27] television in general and the other services that stations [00:01:32] like GNAT and CCTV provide. [00:01:36] But first I thought we'd maybe kind of go back in time a little [00:01:39] bit and have you tell us a little [00:01:41] bit about what prompted you to kind of launch CCTV and [00:01:46] public access TV in Vermont back in 1984, [00:01:50] I believe, was when the station started. [00:01:55] Speaker 2: Well we call them channels, they're radio stations and TV [00:01:59] channels, and CCTV, [00:02:02] Chittenden Community TV, also now known as [00:02:05] Center for Media and Democracy, [00:02:07] is part of a legacy of alternative media that [00:02:10] reaches pretty far back. [00:02:12] And in Vermont, in fact, there were public access channels in [00:02:16] St. Johnsbury and Brattleboro in the 70s. [00:02:19] The St. Johnsbury one in particular [00:02:22] was an outgrowth of Goddard [00:02:23] College's Alternative Media [00:02:24] Center. Goddard College sponsored an alternative media [00:02:29] conference in the early 70s that attracted [00:02:31] 2 ,000 people from all over the world. [00:02:34] So there was a real interest during that counter cultural [00:02:37] period in alternative forms of media. [00:02:40] But even before that, the roots of public access TV, [00:02:45] PEG TV, Public Educational and Government Access TV, now known [00:02:50] as Community Media, [00:02:51] really reaches back to the Second World War, when the [00:02:56] British were trying to counter Nazi [00:02:59] propaganda. So there's actually a straight line through to this [00:03:04] present moment. But the British [00:03:07] government hired a guy named John Greerson to start the [00:03:12] British Film Board, which was in direct [00:03:14] response to the very powerful documentary tradition in Germany [00:03:19] at the time. I think [00:03:20] Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will comes to mind. [00:03:23] It's quite an amazing film to see. [00:03:26] But that purpose was to exalt the Nazi regime. [00:03:30] And so the British said, listen, we have to unite [00:03:33] this class -riven country. [00:03:35] And we want to make films that talk about the [00:03:38] national identity of [00:03:39] Britain, which wasn't terribly united, right? [00:03:42] It's very class split, very split between [00:03:45] the different countries on the islands. [00:03:48] And so Greerson created a series of films that were [00:03:51] meant to unite the nation. [00:03:53] And then he was hired after the war by the Canadian Film Board [00:03:57] to create [00:03:59] a sense of common identity and purpose with a country that was [00:04:02] 3000 miles long and about 100 [00:04:04] miles deep at the time. [00:04:06] And he created the Canadian Film Board. [00:04:09] And the Canadian Film Board, [00:04:11] which still operates today, is very well known, would create [00:04:14] documentaries about different stories [00:04:17] in the life of Canadians. [00:04:19] And then they would send people with a [00:04:21] canister of film and a film [00:04:22] projector to church basements once a week. [00:04:25] And people even now can recount that when they were [00:04:28] children, they would watch these films. [00:04:30] I mean, there was these rural communities for the most [00:04:33] part. There weren't a lot of movie theaters and there wasn't [00:04:36] a lot of television reception. So [00:04:37] these films were really important in creating a sense of [00:04:40] cultural identity. And then there was [00:04:44] kind of a blowback to the Film Board, where people were [00:04:48] starting to say, you're not actually telling [00:04:50] our stories. And so this coincided with the Portapak in [00:04:54] the early 70s, the first portable video [00:04:58] equipment. I mean, it's kind of hard to imagine now in the era [00:05:01] of phones that people didn't have [00:05:04] immediate access to technology, but no one except if you ran a [00:05:09] TV studio or you ran a film studio [00:05:12] had immediate access to technology. [00:05:15] Or, you know, maybe you had super eight films, but it wasn't [00:05:17] this mass access. [00:05:19] So the Portapak, which wasn't that portable, was about 36 [00:05:23] pounds altogether, [00:05:25] the camera and the deck. [00:05:27] But the Film Board put it in the hands of a cadre of [00:05:30] young Canadians [00:05:31] who took this equipment and used it as a tool for social change. [00:05:37] So they went into neighborhoods [00:05:38] in urban Montreal and in rural Ottawa, for example, Ontario, [00:05:44] for example, and they would ask people [00:05:46] questions about what would be helpful to you in order to [00:05:50] rebuild the economic and social [00:05:52] fabric of your community. [00:05:54] One of these films is called VTR St-Jacques. [00:05:57] And literally the camera [00:05:59] people went all through the neighborhood. [00:06:01] They interviewed the [00:06:03] people. And they said, [00:06:05] come on Wednesday night and come and watch what you've all said. [00:06:08] And they all came to this community [00:06:09] center. And this is all filmed, right? [00:06:11] So this process of using video is filmed as part of a [00:06:14] movie. And they realized that they had common costs. [00:06:18] They had common purpose. They all identified [00:06:22] needing jobs or daycare or health care systems, health [00:06:26] centers. So the video was a tool for organizing. [00:06:32] And when George Stoney, who had been hired to document this, saw [00:06:37] this, he thought it was an [00:06:38] incredibly powerful idea and took it back to NYU and trained [00:06:42] the first generation of video interns [00:06:44] to take portable video equipment and go to local cable systems [00:06:49] all across the country and create [00:06:51] these community media centers. [00:06:54] And that was the launch of Public Access TV [00:06:57] because those activists [00:06:59] then became involved in public policy in the rewrite of the [00:07:03] Communication Act in the 1984 [00:07:05] Cable Act, which required public educational and government [00:07:09] access channels and potentially [00:07:11] funding for those channels. [00:07:13] So I knew about this history. [00:07:16] And that's why, you know, I just think [00:07:18] it's important for people to understand that there is a real [00:07:21] through line here from, you know, [00:07:24] media used as a tool for expression, for social change, [00:07:28] for fighting fascism. [00:07:30] And there wasn't [00:07:32] a law in 1984 when we got going in Burlington yet. [00:07:36] It wasn't passed the Cable [00:07:38] Act. But we were able [00:07:40] to use the moral suasion and the examples in Massachusetts and in [00:07:45] New York to persuade the [00:07:47] public service board at the time that they should require these [00:07:50] channels of then Cox Cable. [00:07:54] It's a long answer, but I think it's useful to go into the [00:07:58] history so people understand where we come from. [00:08:00] Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely. So at this point, how roughly how many [00:08:04] public access media centers [00:08:06] are there across the country? [00:08:08] And it's 24 here in Vermont. [00:08:10] I can't imagine that every state has the [00:08:12] same percentage of stations relative to their population. [00:08:15] That would be, I think, roughly one [00:08:17] one public access center per 27 ,000 people, if I did my math [00:08:21] correctly. Hey, [00:08:22] Speaker 2: nice, nice job. They're [00:08:23] probably about 12 to 1500 centers. [00:08:26] There used to be more like 2000 for a variety of reasons. [00:08:30] There has been an erosion of public access across the [00:08:32] country. Massachusetts has [00:08:38] maybe 140, [00:08:40] like all over. Massachusetts is very dense. [00:08:44] And Vermont is very dense. And it's the [00:08:47] nature of our political system, really. [00:08:50] Let me just close the door. So they're all over the country, [00:08:54] but they're not dense like they are in New England. [00:08:57] New England has got its own special sauce. And [00:08:59] the Midwest, there's pretty good density. [00:09:03] The South, not so much. [00:09:05] California has a good variety. [00:09:08] Hawaii has a great every one of the islands has a access center. [00:09:12] So I would say somewhere between [00:09:15] 12 and 1500. [00:09:17] In fact, I was just at the 50th anniversary conference. [00:09:20] It's my little prop. [00:09:23] We had just [00:09:24] celebrated 50 years in Madison, Wisconsin, which is [00:09:27] where the first conference [00:09:28] was. And I did a little map of the history, which is the [00:09:33] centerfold, which is [00:09:34] Speaker 1: really interesting. [00:09:36] And then I also did a 35 foot version of this, which is kind [00:09:41] Speaker 2: of amazing. So you're catching me [00:09:42] in a moment where I'm pretty steeped in the history of the [00:09:45] movement. Oh, my timing is good, then. [00:09:47] Speaker 1: All right. Well, historically, as I understand it [00:09:53] anyway, the financial model of public access [00:09:57] television has been heavily dependent on cable news [00:10:01] subscriptions. [00:10:03] A portion of cable news bills [00:10:07] are directed to public access stations. [00:10:10] But as we all know, cord cutting is now a no longer just [00:10:15] a recent phenomenon. It's been going on for a while. [00:10:18] What do you think is going to be [00:10:24] available to sustain community access centers should cord [00:10:28] cutting from cable subscribers [00:10:30] continue on at the same level it's been we've been seeing [00:10:33] for the past few years? [00:10:35] Speaker 2: Well, I think just to be specific, it's not cable news. [00:10:40] It's cable television subscriptions... [00:10:42] Speaker 1: Right. (5% of cable tel-) I'm sorry, that's what I meant. [00:10:44] Speaker 2: Yeah no, it's fine. Cable television subscriptions in [00:10:48] Vermont. The Public Utility [00:10:50] Commission basically says to cable companies in Vermont, if [00:10:53] you want a contract to do business [00:10:55] in the state, then 5 % of your gross revenue needs to be set [00:11:00] aside for operating and a half a percent [00:11:02] for capital. So this has been marvelous. [00:11:08] But as you mentioned, the cable environment has changed. [00:11:12] I think actually, I have I have it here in my chart. [00:11:17] The peak cable was 2010. [00:11:19] So 95 % of US homes [00:11:22] had cable TV in 2010. [00:11:24] And today, it's 50 million. [00:11:27] So it went from 105 million subs to 50 million [00:11:30] cable subs. So we're half and people aren't actually cutting [00:11:34] the cord. They're just moving the cord, [00:11:36] right? Because they're moving there. [00:11:39] They want what we might call a la carte service. So they [00:11:42] didn't want to pay the high cost of cable subscriptions to, you [00:11:47] know, have a curated cable [00:11:49] experience. They wanted the options to choose their own. [00:11:53] And I think people are finding that [00:11:55] they're spending as much money, maybe even more that they did [00:11:59] because, you know, Netflix is 20 [00:12:01] bucks and Apple is 12. [00:12:03] And, you know, I mean, it adds up. [00:12:05] And you're not getting public educational [00:12:08] government access channels, although you can find us online. [00:12:12] We're all online. We're all most of us [00:12:14] are also on YouTube. So you can get access to the content, but [00:12:19] the revenue model has changed. [00:12:21] So I think you would find in the case, for example, of GNAT is a [00:12:25] very excellent example of a center [00:12:28] that has really started to diversify its revenue. [00:12:31] So it isn't simply the cable subscription, [00:12:37] but maybe cable subscription is 60 or 70 % of the revenue [00:12:41] instead of 100 % of the revenue. I don't [00:12:43] know what the numbers are there. [00:12:45] And then there's fundraising that goes on [00:12:48] and there's underwriting [00:12:49] that goes on and there's fees for service. [00:12:51] There's summer camps. I mean, there's there we've been [00:12:54] called on to really diversify. [00:12:57] And CCTV has been quite entrepreneurial for the [00:13:01] entire longevity, [00:13:03] you know, 42 years, 43 years that we've operated, because [00:13:07] we've really felt that it isn't the technology [00:13:10] that is what makes us unique. [00:13:12] It's our ability to build community, [00:13:15] right? Because we're community [00:13:16] builders. We're not, I mean, we happen to be TV makers, but [00:13:19] that's because that's the equipment [00:13:21] available at the time to be able to knit the community together. [00:13:26] And so in the mid 1990s, when [00:13:28] the digital era started, we created the old North End [00:13:33] Community Technology Center. [00:13:35] So we built a [00:13:36] technology center with computers and training for long term [00:13:39] unemployed people and nonprofits. And [00:13:41] and then that evolved into a nonprofit support [00:13:47] project, which became a 2008 Common Good Vermont, [00:13:50] a statewide project to support nonprofits. [00:13:53] And that spun off and it stands alone. [00:13:56] And then in 2020, [00:13:57] we started working with the Vermont Language Justice [00:14:00] Project, which was producing COVID messaging in [00:14:04] 10 languages. Now they're producing all kinds of all kinds [00:14:08] of messages in 20 [00:14:09] languages. And that [00:14:10] has spun spun off to its own enterprise. [00:14:13] So, you know, this is how we think about the [00:14:16] work. It's [00:14:19] you to diversify your revenue allows you to find grant money [00:14:23] for projects. And we had a lot of [00:14:26] grant money for the community technology centers. [00:14:28] It was a kind of a heyday of broadband community [00:14:31] broadband money. [00:14:32] And, you know, that's not so much anymore. [00:14:36] And now there are, we focus a lot on our [00:14:40] archives. We have this 55 ,000 pieces of programming in our [00:14:45] archives. And we're in the process of [00:14:47] digitizing the VHS tapes where we have another couple of years [00:14:51] till we're done with that. But [00:14:52] we've been able to attract private and grant and federal [00:14:56] funding to do these archival projects. [00:15:00] So, you know, nonprofits all across the country have to think [00:15:06] about revenue diversification. [00:15:08] And I think, you know, public access centers have made that [00:15:11] pivot some more quickly and more [00:15:14] successfully than others. [00:15:16] But certainly, we've also moved to the legislative [00:15:19] realm. And so, [00:15:20] for the past since the 2020s, I mean, the pandemic was probably [00:15:24] the best thing to happen to us really [00:15:26] because the legislature identified us as an essential [00:15:29] service because we were able to pivot [00:15:31] and provide online coverage, remote coverage of public [00:15:37] meetings in about a week, we all figured [00:15:39] out how to do it, not only in Burlington, but across Vermont [00:15:42] and across the country. [00:15:43] And so, it was clear that our technological expertise, our [00:15:48] innovation, our connection to [00:15:50] community all came into play at these kind of critical moments. [00:15:54] So, we have been successful [00:15:56] in obtaining federal, I mean, state money. [00:15:59] And this year, we, [00:16:02] Vermont Access Network secured [00:16:04] with Vermont Community Radio Network because now we work [00:16:07] together $1 .89 million in general fund [00:16:09] support to make up that drop in cable revenue. [00:16:15] Speaker 1: So, historically, [00:16:17] I guess, you know, community [00:16:19] access centers, you know, like Jeanette and others that [00:16:21] I'm familiar with, covered select [00:16:24] board meetings, videotaped them, [00:16:27] and now live stream them, [00:16:30] and other sort of local political [00:16:33] events of one sort or another planning commission meetings, [00:16:35] school board meetings, that kind of [00:16:37] I, do you see that as still being sort of the central role [00:16:41] that stations play in terms of [00:16:45] news gathering, for lack of a better term? [00:16:48] Or, because I wonder, you [00:16:51] know, it was interesting [00:16:53] a couple of weeks ago on Vermont this week, there was a program [00:16:56] that they did about, [00:16:58] and had three journalists from local newspapers around the [00:17:03] state. And one way or another, [00:17:05] they were all struggling, or they were all saying how it was [00:17:09] so much harder today to kind of [00:17:10] keep them, keep them going financially as a viable service. [00:17:16] I mean, do you think public [00:17:17] access can help fill, [00:17:21] I'm not sure if news deserts is the right word or not, but [00:17:26] certain voids created when local newspapers struggle or close. [00:17:31] Are there partnerships that [00:17:32] might be available to do or make sense, or is that just [00:17:36] too too big of a jump? [00:17:38] Speaker 2: I think that broadly speaking, community media serves [00:17:41] many functions. One of them is to provide [00:17:44] gavel to gavel coverage of public meetings, so it's primary [00:17:48] source content that's available to [00:17:50] the public, so they can make up their own minds about what is [00:17:54] happening, right? And journalists [00:17:56] rely on that content, very often they don't attend meetings in [00:18:00] person, they can watch them [00:18:01] remotely, and they do. [00:18:03] It's also source material that you can go back [00:18:06] to, so if someone says, [00:18:07] oh, I didn't say that, it's like, oh, well, actually you [00:18:09] did. So there is a really important [00:18:15] news provision of primary source information, which is different [00:18:19] than what journalists do, [00:18:20] right? So journalists participate in an event, then [00:18:25] they maybe talk to multiple points of view, [00:18:28] if they're good, [00:18:30] and then they create a report, [00:18:32] not an editorial comment, that's a different [00:18:35] function of the news, but a report of what's happened. [00:18:41] And that requires skill, and it requires [00:18:43] training, and it requires a high degree of media literacy and [00:18:48] political literacy and [00:18:49] historic understanding, I mean, all these things. [00:18:52] And that might be one of the biggest threats in [00:18:55] Vermont is that we have a very young news core that doesn't [00:18:59] have a deep, historic frame of [00:19:01] reference. So there are numerous threats that [00:19:07] face journalism in Vermont. [00:19:10] One of them is that [00:19:13] primary sources are appropriate, like the New York Times or [00:19:18] newspapers are appropriated by [00:19:22] online sources, and the content gets extracted and repurposed [00:19:27] and given away for [00:19:28] free. And you, [00:19:30] as the primary provider of that content, have no, [00:19:34] you know, it's like it's free, like no one has [00:19:38] paid you, you're like seven days says, you know, it's not free to [00:19:43] make the news, like seven days [00:19:46] is free, but making it isn't. [00:19:48] So you have to have some kind of financial infrastructure, [00:19:53] and it may be that print, it is true, the print is not the [00:19:57] primary way that the majority of people [00:20:01] get their news. And so you have to make a pivot to providing [00:20:05] that news and information [00:20:07] in other sources and figuring out how to commodify it. [00:20:11] So local newspapers in Vermont, and I think [00:20:15] seven days is a really good example of this, [00:20:18] you know, they're sort of the, you know, gold standard, [00:20:21] I would say, because they not only they print and that costs [00:20:27] them a lot of money and give this stuff [00:20:28] away for free, but they rely on advertising. [00:20:31] And they also do philanthropy. [00:20:33] And they also [00:20:34] are involved in some of these initiatives nationally that can [00:20:38] bring reporters to them, [00:20:40] subsidize for other purposes. [00:20:43] And they work with UVM's project, the Center [00:20:47] for Community News, [00:20:49] which has managed to garner all this federal money, amazing [00:20:52] Richard Watts, how he does it, [00:20:54] no one really knows, but all this federal money to train the [00:20:58] next generation of reporters. [00:21:00] So I think that there is quite a lot going on, but small local [00:21:05] newspapers in Vermont cannot [00:21:06] depend on university level reporters to be their primary [00:21:12] news gatherers. [00:21:13] I mean, they can supplement [00:21:14] it. But you've got to have people that understand how to [00:21:18] gather news, teach this generation of people, [00:21:21] edit the news, run a business, [00:21:25] right? I mean, you have to have all these skills [00:21:27] in order to run a [00:21:28] small newspaper in Vermont. [00:21:30] And the successful people just like in community media, [00:21:33] if you can't [00:21:35] do all of those things, then you're not going to have a going [00:21:38] concern. It's like any small business. [00:21:41] So I think there are many challenges, but I also, I [00:21:47] honestly feel there are many opportunities. [00:21:50] And, you know, public access has managed to take advantage of [00:21:54] those opportunities because we've [00:21:56] seen them, we've prepared for them, we've understood they're [00:21:58] coming. I mean, we've known this digital [00:22:00] transition since 1990, that there was going to be a cliff of [00:22:04] cable subscribers dropping off. [00:22:06] I mean, 1990, that's a long time we've been working on this. [00:22:10] So I think you have to take a long view [00:22:12] and I think you have to think creatively and you have to work [00:22:15] really hard. And sometimes you pay [00:22:17] your staff before you pay yourself. [00:22:19] I mean, all of that is true. [00:22:21] Speaker 1: Where do you see AI or [00:22:24] artificial intelligence fitting into all of this? [00:22:27] I mean, I'm starting to read more and more stories [00:22:29] about how somebody looks at a photograph. [00:22:33] I mean, just today, for [00:22:34] instance, Mitch McConnell, [00:22:36] the senator from Kentucky, he's been hospitalized for the past [00:22:39] few weeks. There's a picture of him [00:22:42] and his wife in the hospital, he's smiling, he's happy, he's [00:22:45] wearing a shirt. [00:22:46] And there's a copy [00:22:47] of the New York Post next to his bed. [00:22:50] And someone out in the AI world decided, wait a minute, [00:22:54] that's a copy of the post on the day before this picture was [00:22:57] taken. This must be a faked photo. [00:22:59] Well, no, it wasn't. [00:23:01] But I guess the specter of AI being what it is and how [00:23:06] so many things can be made up and twisted into different [00:23:10] forms, or suspected to be, [00:23:14] is one more thing kind of undermining trust in [00:23:17] media, it seems like. [00:23:20] Speaker 2: I mean, that gets to, I think, the second function of [00:23:23] community media. You know, not only do we [00:23:25] keep the Wales democracy turning by covering these meetings, [00:23:28] gavel to gavel, and being on site when [00:23:31] there are events like demonstrations or public events, [00:23:35] but we're media literacy teachers. That's [00:23:38] what we do. And we do that either through summer camps, [00:23:42] teaching kids, but mostly by providing [00:23:46] people with the primary source information that is real and [00:23:50] true, because that's what we do, [00:23:52] and it's non -commercial, [00:23:54] so that people can make up their own minds and practice [00:23:58] figuring out what is actually going on. [00:24:01] So with community media, you don't have to worry that [00:24:05] it's AI, right? [00:24:07] You don't have to worry that your data is being captured. [00:24:11] You don't have to worry [00:24:12] about any of the currency of the modern media ecosystem, which is [00:24:18] really about data collection, [00:24:21] right? You know, you give your content for free, and I'm [00:24:24] getting a little off the AI track, but [00:24:26] the point I want to make is that in social media, which is not [00:24:30] community media by any stretch, [00:24:33] it's owned by multinational corporations, [00:24:37] we give our content for free, which is then not only used [00:24:42] to sell ads, but data collection is the primary [00:24:48] business model of most, if not all media, [00:24:53] right now. That's where the money is. [00:24:56] Collecting data on our habits and putting it together [00:25:00] as a way of packaging to us products and services in the [00:25:06] moment personalized to us. [00:25:09] So that level of sophistication requires a huge AI engine, [00:25:15] right, to make that happen [00:25:17] and to put stuff together quickly and serve it up. [00:25:20] Like that's the incredible computing power of [00:25:23] this era is being recruited to sell to us in more and more [00:25:29] sophisticated ways, [00:25:30] including what you're describing, not being able to [00:25:33] discern what is true and what is not. [00:25:36] And so we have to really up our game, and I think community [00:25:40] media needs to up our game [00:25:41] in terms of our media literacy, teaching people about how this [00:25:46] media ecosystem works, [00:25:48] what it's really about, and how people can protect themselves [00:25:52] and their children. [00:25:54] Because, [00:25:55] you know, there are organizations that are working [00:25:57] to protect themselves and our children, [00:26:01] but they're not heavily funded, right? [00:26:04] I mean, it's an uphill battle. [00:26:05] One of the organizations [00:26:06] that I work with is the Center for Digital Democracy, and they [00:26:10] were responsible for passing [00:26:12] the Children's Protection Act, Advertising Protection Act in [00:26:17] the 80s, and then it was updated [00:26:19] to the Children's Internet Privacy Act so that marketing to [00:26:23] children could be tracked and curtailed. [00:26:28] This is becoming increasingly difficult when you really start [00:26:31] to read and understand [00:26:33] how these marketing apparatus are working, [00:26:37] how sophisticated they are, and how difficult it [00:26:40] is for us to discern what is fake and what is real. [00:26:46] Speaker 1: Really incredible to have arrived at this point. [00:26:50] I thought things were bad enough when it was just social [00:26:53] media, social media you had to worry about, [00:26:56] but we're clearly going to another level. [00:26:59] I just was wondering, [00:27:01] before we need to run, I mean, [00:27:03] when you talk to legislators in Vermont and in Montpelier about [00:27:08] the role of public access [00:27:11] TV here in the state, [00:27:13] do you get a sense from them that they understand its [00:27:15] importance that by, [00:27:18] you know, covering select board meetings and school board [00:27:22] meetings and, you know, other [00:27:25] community events like that, that we're playing an important role [00:27:30] in, you know, just getting out [00:27:32] reliable information out to the public, which people can then [00:27:36] make decisions on. I mean, do they [00:27:38] have a sense that that's the case and therefore we're [00:27:42] supporting? What do you think? [00:27:46] It seems to [00:27:47] depend on the person you're talking to. [00:27:50] I guess some clearly get it and others just more of a [00:27:55] more of a conversation. [00:27:57] Speaker 2: Well, I think it's always a conversation and I think [00:28:00] we've done a pretty good [00:28:02] job in terms of our election coverage. [00:28:04] So we bring, I mean, and you play a huge role in that, you [00:28:07] know, we bring people into the studio, you introduce them to [00:28:10] the idea of community media by virtue of [00:28:13] the program that you're doing or the election forms that we're [00:28:16] hosting. We are in the legislature [00:28:18] covering things. [00:28:19] Legislators, many of them understand that they can come [00:28:22] and make their own shows. [00:28:24] They sit on select boards, right? [00:28:26] The people that are getting their meetings covered, [00:28:28] they understand about community media. [00:28:30] So I think that in the, in the building, [00:28:33] we have enormous support for community access by, you know, [00:28:39] all sides of the aisle, [00:28:41] all three sides of the aisle are really supportive of us. [00:28:45] And that's why we've been able to generate [00:28:47] general fund support with the Secretary of State to fund this [00:28:52] gap in revenue. [00:28:54] So I think that, you know, we have to continue working in the [00:28:57] legislature. We have to figure [00:28:59] out a revenue source, [00:29:01] you know, maybe that's a streaming tax, maybe [00:29:04] that's something else, [00:29:06] you know, we're trying to figure that out. [00:29:08] And I think that we have the support of the legislature. [00:29:12] I think the governor even knows how important we are. [00:29:17] He's not going to support a tax, [00:29:20] but even in his opposing attacks to support community media in [00:29:25] the face of declining [00:29:26] cable revenue, it doesn't mean he doesn't support community [00:29:29] media. So, you know, there is always [00:29:33] a conversation that has to take place because after all, Andrew, [00:29:37] that's what we're about. [00:29:39] Speaker 1: Right. [00:29:40] Speaker 2: Right. We're about conversations. [00:29:41] We're about building [00:29:42] community. We're about bringing [00:29:44] people who might think differently to the table so that [00:29:48] they can hear each other and appreciate [00:29:50] each other's point of view. [00:29:52] We have a lot of mending to do in this culture at this time, [00:29:57] maybe more so than ever before. [00:29:59] But that doesn't mean that we don't get up every morning and [00:30:02] set [00:30:03] the table for the conversation. [00:30:06] Speaker 1: Right. And it's, like you say, [00:30:09] a big project and an important one. [00:30:11] I think we're starting to see more and more just how important [00:30:14] that is as the polarization or [00:30:17] division within the country seems to just go on and on to [00:30:21] have that kind of unifying or at least [00:30:26] the ability to have conversations where we can agree [00:30:28] on where we want to get to and the question [00:30:30] is just how do we get there or whatever. [00:30:32] And that can happen respectfully and civilly and [00:30:37] argumentatively all the time. [00:30:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. And the polarization is in news. You know, [00:30:41] I'm not going to say it's fabricated. [00:30:43] There's definitely polarization, but that's what a great [00:30:46] story. I mean, that's what news is based on is argument between [00:30:51] good and bad and right and wrong. [00:30:53] So, it sells. [00:30:55] It sells. It's a narrative that sells. [00:30:57] But I think when you sit down with people [00:31:00] that you might not agree with on the face of it and start to [00:31:05] talk, you have grandchildren that [00:31:07] you want to talk about. You've got pets you want to talk about. [00:31:11] You've got, you know, you find these [00:31:14] common funny arcane interests that you talk about. [00:31:18] And that's, that's what is the heart [00:31:20] of a community are these common interests, not these divisions. [00:31:25] And I think, you know, if people, [00:31:27] it's a rare person that feeds on division, you know, I think [00:31:31] there are people that do, [00:31:32] but I think that's a rare person. [00:31:34] I think people feed on companionship and [00:31:37] fellowship and common [00:31:39] cause and neighborliness and when given the opportunity to [00:31:44] bring their central nervous [00:31:45] system to a calm state, we were able to find that. [00:31:50] And I think that's part of the goal of [00:31:52] community media is to help people calm their central [00:31:55] nervous system, that they can take in [00:31:58] information and knowledge, use it to the betterment of their [00:32:02] own lives and the lives of their neighbors. [00:32:05] Speaker 1: All right. Well, Lauren- Glenn, I guess we'll leave [00:32:08] it there for today, but [00:32:09] certainly a conversation that will be going on for a while to [00:32:13] come. But anyway, thank you again for [00:32:16] the time to share your thinking and ideas with us [00:32:20] all. Really appreciate it. [00:32:21] Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you so much, Andrew, for all you've done over [00:32:24] the years to help bring people [00:32:26] together and to help people understand what's going on in [00:32:30] the state. You're indefatigable [00:32:32] or indefatigable. [00:32:34] It's been just great. So thank you. [00:32:37] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, thank you very much. You're very [00:32:38] kind. Alrighty. [00:32:40] Well, we'll leave it there for now. [00:32:42] And to all the folks out watching, [00:32:44] thank you very much for being with us as well. [00:32:47] And we'll see you again the next time. Take care.
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